The most recent Zelda game Echoes of Wisdom started it’s life as a prototype dungeon-maker, where you could construct your own Zelda dungeon, play and share with your friends. WIth the announcement of the Switch 2 now is the perfect time to revisit this idea. Today I want to dive into the idea of a Zelda dungeon maker as a spin-off title in the Legend of Zelda series.
Nintendo has dabbled in Zelda dungeon-making in the Link’s Awakening Remake for Nintendo Switch released in 2019. This was a feature called Chamber Dungeons. As you completed the main dungeons in the story, new chambers would open up, and they are replicas of rooms completed in completed dungeons. You can visit Dampe’s shack in Tal Tal Heights and use the chambers to complete challenges set by Dampe.
The Chambers have to be arranged to fit a given shape and certain conditions have to be met, for example: The dungeon must have an entrance room; The dungeon must have a Nightmare’s Lair; All rooms in the dungeon must connect; There must be sufficient keys for all locked doors and / or blocks. Completing Dampé’s various challenges will see Link receive different rewards e.g. a Fairy Bottle and rupees.
This was a nice side feature in the Link’s Awakening Remake, adding a little more value and something different to fans who had already played through the game on the original Gameboy.
Link’s Awakening was developed by Grezzo in partnership with Nintendo, and once Link’s Awakening was complete they set upon their next task of creating a new Zelda game. Grezzo would pitch ideas to Eiji Aonuma and Nintendo, and one idea that sparked a lot of excitement within the Grezzo Studio was an idea where you could ‘copy and paste’ elements set in a top-down and side view. Aonuma pushed back against the Grezzo team and asked them to add more freedom into their game concept.
“Having worked on games in the Legend of Zelda series over the years, we started to feel that fans may not continue playing this franchise unless they can think independently and try various things freely on their own, rather than following a set path” Aonuma said in the ‘Ask the Developer’ series published before Echoes of Wisdom released.
Grezzo then developed the concept of the Dungeon-maker, building on their work from Link’s Awakening.
“We were exploring a few different ways to play the game in parallel. In one approach, Link could copy and paste various objects, such as doors and candlesticks, to create original dungeons. During this exploration phase, this idea was called an ‘edit dungeon’ because players could create their own Legend of Zelda gameplay.” said Terada.
While Eiji Aonuma thought the concept was fun, he would eventually push back on the idea and the concept would evolve into the Echoes mechanic we got in the final product.
“They showed it to me and told me to give it a try. As I played, I started thinking that while it’s fun to create your own dungeon and let other people play it, it’s also not so bad to place items that can be copied and pasted in the game field, and create gameplay where they can be used to fight enemies. That was the beginning of gameplay using “echoes.” The gameplay was shifted from creating dungeons up until then to using copied-and-pasted items as tools to further your own adventure.” said Aonuma.
We very nearly had a Zelda dungeon maker. I do think now would be the perfect time to revisit that idea, given we have the Switch 2 coming. We don’t know the full details of the Switch 2, they will be confimed in April this year with the big Nintendo Switch 2 Direct. However, I believe if they have the right combination of improved Online features and mouse controls, a dungeon creator could be the perfect application to show off the power of the Switch 2.
Rumours have been flying around related to mouse controls, given the optical sensor on the Joy Cons. Then in the Nintendo Switch 2 reveal trailer Nintendo had the Joy Cons racing around the table, looking very much like real-life rodents. If we get mouse support, and it’s not confirmed yet, then that will be the perfect tool to help put together Zelda dungeons much quicker than using a controller. It would be more comfortable, faster and easier for the audience to create their dungeon.
Another feature of the Switch 2 will be better online support. There is the rumoured C button on the right Joy Con, with the C standing for Community. The Switch 2 could have Discord-like features built into the console allowing for easy sharing and broadcasting to a group of friends. Sharing your dungeons and allowing friends to easily play them is key to any maker game. Super Mario Maker was onto something with it’s first game, although sharing through codes was tricky. Hopefully Nintendo can come up with easier sharing methods, allowing players to quickly create, and allow easy access to millions of Zelda fans all around the world.
I am hopeful that with the launch of Nintendo Switch, we can finally get the Zelda Dungeon maker I certainly want. However, there is one fly in the ointment for this idea, and that’s the opinion of Eiji Aonuma, Legend of Zelda Producer. In an interview with Polygon in 2023, they put the question to him:
Polygon: Is there ever a world where you could imagine a Zelda game that allows people to make their own dungeons, almost like Super Mario Maker?
“When we’re creating games like Tears of the Kingdom, I think it’s important that we don’t make creativity a requirement. Instead we put things into the game that encourage people to be creative, and give them the opportunity to be creative, without forcing them to. There are people who want the ability to create from scratch, but that’s not everyone. But I think everyone delights in the discovery of finding your own way through a game, and that is something we tried to make sure was included in Tears of the Kingdom; there isn’t one right way to play.”
“If you are a creative person, you have the ability to go down that path. But that’s not what you have to do; you’re also able to proceed to the game in many other different ways. And so I don’t think that it would be a good fit for The Legend of Zelda to necessarily require people to build things from scratch and force them to be creative.” Aonuma said.
Here Aonuma was on the press circuit promoting Tears of the Kingdom, so I am not surprised he highlighted the creativity in TOTK. But he has a valid point, not everyone wants to create. There is hope though, Shigeru Miyamoto is still a fan of creating, and pressed Aonuma to add the maker features into Link’s Awakening.
The way I would get around this is to have a spin-off title. This doesn’t have to be a mainline Zelda game with that’s placed on the timeline, this could be a spin off similar to Link’s Crossbow training or the Tingle games.
There are a few alternatives out there including Super Dungeon Maker on Nintendo Switch. Quest Master is another excellent dungeon maker, inspired by Zelda dungeons. If you can’t wait until Nintendo creates a Zelda dungeon-maker, then you have a few options out there to pick up and play while we wait.
Community spotlight
@GamingReinvented
A Zelda dungeon maker would be great, especially if you could set up your own overarching dungeon mechanics, lay out rooms and obstacles in any way you want, choose fitting boss and mini boss encounters, etc. I do worry that it may be tough to truly capture the feel of a unique dungeon though, since often times that revolves around an interesting item/ability and fitting obstacles/puzzles to clear with it. That part may be a bit limited with a Mario Maker like toolset.
@MartKart8
I noticed how Link is in Super Mario Maker 2, what if there was a third Super Mario Maker and you play as Link from the beginning instead, when making a level, have a lot of the Super Mario maker elements in Temples and co-op modes you get to play as Mario and Link in them.
@vianabdullah2837
I don’t think most people have would be able to make good dungeons as Mario levels are much easier to conceptualise. Nintendo has been testing out this concept since the 80s, and they haven’t figured out a way to make it intuitive. Though a bite-sized shrine maker would be an interesting side mode to make use of the Switch 2’s stronger hardware.
@olivierf2938
I’d love it. I guess 2D dungeons would be easier to make, Nintendo probably dropped the idea because of its complexity in the first place so I can’t imagine a 3D version existing right away.
That being said, I don’t know why it would be for Switch 2 specifically. Because of the mouse controls ? It’s a nice option but the touchscreen like in Mario Maker is enough imho. And 2D Zelda, even if Grezzo made the Switch chug at times, doesn’t require the extra power. Anyway, a full blown Zelda Maker would be lovely.
@vitormoraes8320
I like the idea, but maybe it could be put inside Mario Maker 3, otherwise we could be canibalizing each other. Also, the idea could be expanded further, having DK and/or Metroid elements as well. Imagine sharing your own version of a a goron temple, playing hot head bop with samus blasting through volvagia
Let me know what you think in the comments.
Leave a Reply